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Meeting 2015 10 29
Public call:
When: 2015/10/29, 9AM PDT, Convert to your time
Where: #pump.io channel on IRC (irc.freenode.net), you can attend also via XMPP/Jabber, since we have a bridge (MUC: pump.io@muc.jappix.com ), or via web ( http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=pump.io )
Agenda for the case Evan Prodromou can come:
- pump.node adoption
- fundraising
- roadmap
- Social WG (and Activipy?) mini-update
Agenda for the case Evan Prodromou cannot attend:
- bug squashing party
- deployment
- documentation
- Social WG (and Activipy?) mini-update
[17:03] <larjona> #############################################################
[17:03] <larjona> BEGIN LOG
[17:03] <larjona> #############################################################
[17:03] <larjona> Dear all, welcome to this pump.io community meeting!
[17:03] <larjona> Info URL:
[17:03] <larjona> https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/wiki/Meeting-2015-10-29
[17:03] <larjona> If anybody wants their nick redacted just say here or direct message to me.
[17:04] <larjona> #TOPIC Roll call! Who's here? Say hello!
[17:04] <grdryn> hello
[17:04] <paroneayea> hello!
[17:04] -*- larjona is here obviously
[17:04] <macno> hello
[17:04] <paroneayea> molgrum: hehe, full orgmode :)
[17:05] <seawolf> hello all!
[17:05] <cmaloney> hello
[17:05] <molgrum> hello!
[17:05] <xmpp-pump> [shtrom] yop
[17:05] <paroneayea> I can give an update on things related to the standards stuff and how it might impact pump.io, otherwise I don't have much to say
[17:05] -*- paroneayea adds that as an item, is that ok larjona ?
[17:05] <larjona> ok
[17:05] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] "hello"
[17:06] --> e_s_p joined #pump.io
[17:06] <e_s_p> Hello all
[17:06] <e_s_p> I'm going to be in and out
[17:06] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] hi!
[17:06] <paroneayea> horray
[17:06] <paroneayea> hi e_s_p
[17:07] <larjona> hi e_s_p! Which agenda do you prefer, then?
[17:07] <paroneayea> larjona: added an item
[17:07] <paroneayea> e_s_p: https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/wiki/Meeting-2015-10-29
[17:08] <e_s_p> Evan-can't-come version
[17:08] <e_s_p> Sorry, I have to prep for my big presentation tomorrow
[17:08] <paroneayea> bd
[17:08] <larjona> ok fine! Nice that you show up in any case!!
[17:08] <paroneayea> :)
[17:08] <larjona> ok then
[17:08] <e_s_p> Even though I'm not here
[17:09] <larjona> We have this agenda:
[17:09] <larjona> bug squashing party
[17:09] <larjona> deployment
[17:09] <larjona> documentation
[17:09] <larjona> Social WG (and Activipy?) mini-update
[17:09] <larjona> I think maybe it's better to begin with Social WG updates
[17:10] <larjona> and after that, we can hack/triage/discuss together about bugs, deployments and documentation
[17:10] <larjona> Anybody against this?
[17:11] <larjona> ok paroneayea, proceed!
[17:12] <paroneayea> ohai
[17:12] <paroneayea> larjona: proceed on my update, or proceed on running the meeting? :)
[17:12] <larjona> proceed with social wg updates
[17:12] <paroneayea> oh okay!
[17:12] <paroneayea> sure
[17:12] <-- mrvdb left
[17:12] --> mrvdb joined #pump.io
[17:13] <paroneayea> gimme a sec to pull up something :)
[17:13] <larjona> fine
[17:13] <paroneayea> so, some interesting things have been happening...
[17:14] <paroneayea> probably the most interesting is that rhiaro (who's present here) has put together http://rhiaro.github.io/Social-APIs-Brainstorming/socialapi which kind of maps the space of the different federation protocols, and may eventually become its own protocol
[17:14] <paroneayea> a number of us are, as I also updated recently, trying to get the ActivityStreams spec to Candidate Recommendation... the main challenges are that we need implementations and test suites
[17:14] <paroneayea> e_s_p and I may run a implementation sprint soon
[17:14] <paroneayea> we will announce that to this community as well if that happens
[17:14] <paroneayea> speaking of that
[17:15] <paroneayea> I have been pushing rather hard on getting a Python implementation working with https://github.com/w3c-social/activipy
[17:15] <paroneayea> I'm now at the point where most things are working, and most things are documented
[17:15] <paroneayea> I could use community review to see if things make sense
[17:15] <paroneayea> anyone who is intersted in reading http://activipy.readthedocs.org/en/latest/index.html would be most welcom
[17:15] <paroneayea> e
[17:16] <larjona> paroneayea: activipy is like pypump but for the ActivityStreams spec?
[17:16] <paroneayea> larjona: for activitystreams 2.0, and not necessarily for federation (though those tools will be coming)
[17:16] <larjona> ok
[17:16] <paroneayea> but very close
[17:17] <paroneayea> it's a good analogy, and we may come up to a pypump level of features as in terms of client-to-server stuff out of the box too
[17:17] <paroneayea> there's some challenges being raised to activitystreams about whether the "core standard" + "vocab" really ought to go together, I more or less lay out why I think they fit together here: http://activipy.readthedocs.org/en/latest/about.html
[17:17] <paroneayea> I would really, really be interested to hear if anyone catches what my rationale is from that section of the manual and if it makes sense.
[17:17] <paroneayea> there's also a tutorial, but you have to check it out from git http://activipy.readthedocs.org/en/latest/tutorial.html
[17:17] <paroneayea> a 0.1 release probably will happen early next week
[17:18] <paroneayea> so that's it!
[17:18] <detrout> poor billy scripter
[17:18] <paroneayea> detrout: :)
[17:18] <larjona> ok, in the last meetings we were talking about how to adapt pump.io to use activitystreams 2.0. If that thing happens, then we would have two implementations, the one in pump.io core (nodejs) and activipy (python). Am I right?
[17:19] <paroneayea> larjona: yes that was a point of discussion
[17:19] <larjona> so the sprint you'll run with e_s_p is about the pump.io core thing, about activipy, or both?
[17:20] <paroneayea> larjona: ah, good question
[17:20] <molgrum> is activitystreams something to put on a homepage for example? i'm kind of fresh
[17:20] <paroneayea> so, it's about library implementations probably, but if we could get pump.io hackers interested in porting pump.io, I think that would be great
[17:20] <paroneayea> molgrum: you could absolutely put it on a homepage kind of like an rss/atom feed
[17:20] <xmpp-pump> [shtrom] what would a testsuite look like?
[17:20] <paroneayea> activitystreams kind of does two things
[17:21] <paroneayea> it's kind of like a log of things that have happened
[17:21] <paroneayea> and it also can be used as a kind of "command language"
[17:21] <paroneayea> so for the "putting it on your homepage", that would probably be the using it in the log way
[17:21] <molgrum> sounds great, even more great would be if it is some kind of widget
[17:21] <paroneayea> shtrom via xmpp-pump: evan has written a test suite
[17:21] <xmpp-pump> [shtrom] not node.js dependent?
[17:22] <paroneayea> trying to find it, one se
[17:22] <paroneayea> c
[17:23] <larjona> let's dance while we wait :)
[17:23] <larjona>
[17:23] <larjona> \o7 \o/ o7 \o
[17:23] <larjona> | | /| |7
[17:23] <larjona>
[17:23] <paroneayea> larjona: :)
[17:23] <molgrum> why so straight
[17:23] <paroneayea> https://github.com/evanp/activitystreams.js-test
[17:23] <paroneayea> here we go
[17:23] <paroneayea> larjona: I like the use of 7
[17:23] --> late4dinner joined #pump.io
[17:23] <paroneayea> A+
[17:24] <paroneayea> so I basically need to map activipy to this, and any other implementation theoretically should be able to run against
[17:24] <paroneayea> it
[17:25] <xmpp-pump> [shtrom] there doesn't seem to be many tests in there yet
[17:25] <paroneayea> shtrom: it could use work
[17:25] <xmpp-pump> [shtrom] sure (:
[17:26] <xmpp-pump> [shtrom] but it also looks very js specifc
[17:26] <paroneayea> shtrom: though in a sense, there isn't too much to test. It's json + optionally json-ld, which isn't complex. We need a test suite though.
[17:26] <paroneayea> shtrom: it's set out to shell out to a test script I think
[17:26] <xmpp-pump> [shtrom] ok
[17:26] <paroneayea> so that it can verify that your library produces the right result
[17:26] <detrout> (gotta go, have a good meeting)
[17:26] <paroneayea> shtrom: I need to get activipy working with this
[17:26] <larjona> bye detrout! thanks for coming!
[17:26] <paroneayea> thanks detrout !
[17:27] <xmpp-pump> [shtrom] overall, my question is wether this testsuite can be used for any language without adaptation
[17:27] <paroneayea> shtrom: I believe so
[17:27] <xmpp-pump> [shtrom] ok
[17:27] <paroneayea> but I will know by next week
[17:27] <paroneayea> it will require javascript to run the test suite
[17:28] <paroneayea> but then it will use your language
[17:28] <paroneayea> but think of the test suite as a standalone application
[17:28] <xmpp-pump> [shtrom] yes, ok
[17:28] <paroneayea> (btw, I don't know if these updates on socialwg things are interesting for these meetings of if people feel they just take up time, they are relevant to the future of pump so... but I don't want to waste people's time if not interesting either)
[17:28] <paroneayea> as for the more direct topic of pump.io and AS 2.0
[17:29] <paroneayea> I think it's still somewhat held up on how well we can get pump.io to a hackable state again. luckily, strugee has been working on fixing the tests up
[17:29] <larjona> ok paroneayea, do we add an item for next meeting agenda "updates on activitystreams 2.0 implementations/sprint" or we leave it for later? I think your updates are valuable because the idea is moving from Pump API to ActivityStreams 2.0 or whatever the W3G chooses
[17:29] <paroneayea> larjona: good to hear, and yes, let's add it to next meeting then
[17:30] <larjona> I mean, maybe you need more time for working on this
[17:30] <paroneayea> larjona: it may be a 2 minute checkin next time :)
[17:30] <paroneayea> but e_s_p and I should set up that sprint anwyay, and a reminder is good
[17:30] <larjona> fine. Anything else about this topic?
[17:30] <molgrum> paroneayea: is it possible to hack at the activitystream, place it on a website, and not touch/need pump.io source?
[17:32] <molgrum> in other words i'm kinda interested in hacking javascript
[17:32] <e_s_p> One thing that's possible is to put middleware in pumpio
[17:32] <e_s_p> That captures the output and rewrites it as AS2
[17:32] <-- e_s_p left
[17:32] <paroneayea> woop
[17:33] <paroneayea> molgrum: I'm not sure I totally follow, did e_s_p address that?
[17:33] <paroneayea> anyway it's possible to either hack activitystreams (it's just json) outside of pump.io, or to filter its stream from AS1 -> AS2, or put it elsewhere
[17:33] <paroneayea> "it's just json", so
[17:33] <-- late4dinner left
[17:34] <molgrum> paroneayea: okay, i think my Q is answered then :)
[17:34] <larjona> more questions/comments?
[17:35] <larjona> ok, let's move on
[17:35] <larjona> Maybe Jan can give us an update about Documentation?
[17:36] <larjona> New documentation goes now to http://pumpio.readthedocs.org/
[17:36] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] yes
[17:36] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] I set up that last week
[17:36] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] now I've moved it from markdown to RST format which readthedocs prefers
[17:37] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] it's really a lot more powerful when using this format
[17:37] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] so now it has a custom TOC, and can be locailzed
[17:37] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] you can switch to spanish for now, though it's not really translated, it's mostly a test
[17:38] <larjona> If anybody has experience in readthedocs+multilingual, please ping Jan and/or me
[17:38] <larjona> OTOH, note that there is a section for sysadmin documentation: https://pumpio.readthedocs.org/en/latest/sysadmins.html
[17:38] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] at the moment, and following the workflow that readthedocs "proposes", both languages are 2 different projects
[17:38] <-- macno left
[17:38] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] the spanish one being set up as a subproject of the main one
[17:38] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] both projects feed from different git repos, which has pros and cons
[17:39] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] at last from the user's perspective, everything is unified and nice
[17:40] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] larjona pointed out that maintaining different sets of complete RST documents for each language would be chaos
[17:40] <larjona> I "believe" that multilingual documentation can be handled in readthedocs using gettext and po files, but I'm not sure (just "believe") and we couldn't find documentation on how to do it. Hence my call for more experienced people
[17:40] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] there might be a way with readthedocs to generate the RST files from mo/po translation files
[17:41] <larjona> Anyway, I can show up in readthedocs irc/mailinglist/whatever to ask. Don't worry about that now.
[17:41] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] at the very least, with the current setup we can rely on git diff's to check changes in the english version to adapt the others when something changes
[17:41] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] not that this is at a 'translation stage' anyway, yet :D
[17:42] <larjona> The interesting part IMHO could be to gather documentation about deployments in the sysadmins section (and here I link with the other topic of this meeting, "deployment")
[17:42] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] I sent a PR to pump.io's repo adding links to this documentation clearly visible in the frontpage and in the message users have in their inbox upon registration
[17:42] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] and it was merged, so hopefully that will help :D
[17:43] <larjona> I can review the actual github wiki and copy the corresponding info there, but last metings we talked about maybe that info to be outdated (for example, anybody deployed pump.io in the current debian stable?)
[17:44] <larjona> And list the nodejs versions that work and the ones that don't (another example)
[17:44] <larjona> and it seems that everybody ended using mongodb, no redis anymore?
[17:44] -*- larjona just asks, not sure about those points
[17:45] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] redis has serious RAM usage problems after a while, apparently
[17:46] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] redis itself, or redis-databank, but either way, I've heard of enough pump admins who switched from redis to something else
[17:46] <larjona> Ok, just note that the sysadmin documentation depends on us selfhosters to write or update the current info
[17:47] <larjona> If you post for example a paragraph about your setup to pumpio@pumpit.info, I can care about putting that in RST format and upload to the repo, for example
[17:48] <larjona> in a section "use case", for example
[17:48] <larjona> Do you want me for example to write up 3 or 4 questions, and publish a note (pumpio@pumpit.info) with those questions, in order to gather that info?
[17:49] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] that could be a good start
[17:49] <larjona> "OS, nodejs version, database, CPU+RAM, number of accounts of your instance, comments" for example
[17:50] <larjona> no selfhosters around, it seems :)
[17:50] <larjona> ok, anything else on documentation?
[17:51] <larjona> Bug triaging/squashing, then
[17:52] <larjona> This is a nice queue that show movement in the last weeks:
[17:52] <larjona> https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=+sort%3Aupdated-desc+
[17:52] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] I have nothing to add about documentation, no =)
[17:53] <larjona> pardon, this one
[17:53] <larjona> https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/issues?q=sort%3Aupdated-desc+
[17:53] <larjona> I can triage bugs and add labels if that helps to the committers/mergers,but I have no permissions to add labels or close duplicated bugs etc
[17:54] <larjona> I can -> I can put workforce in
[17:54] <larjona> And we are still blocked in the tests not passing for merging some requests isn't it?
[17:54] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] I did this: https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/pull/1126 to fix a somewhat annoying bug
[17:55] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] the change is quite small, but maybe the test suite needs to be fixed first
[17:56] <paroneayea> larjona: I did give strugee commit accss
[17:56] <paroneayea> and authority to commit at will on the tests front
[17:57] <paroneayea> my time to review is basically 0 at this time
[17:58] <larjona> jpope is also committer but didn't show up... any other committer that has time to review/merge?
[17:58] <paroneayea> so I don't have time to review/merge, but I would be interested in helping others along in advancing that process
[17:59] <paroneayea> right now I have to focus on "related work" to #pump.io :)
[17:59] -*- larjona realised now why the legs or her dancers didn't show up
[18:00] <larjona> ok, let's hope that strugee can fix the tests, and e_s_p may find time to merge some pull requests.
[18:00] <detrout> was there a quick question about self hosting?
[18:01] <larjona> detrout I'll post a note in pump, asking selfhosters to answer
[18:01] <detrout> ok
[18:02] <larjona> so, one minute for 1hour meeting. Can we do anything to advance the code review/merges/tests? or just wait for e_s_p and/or strugee to unblock the tests passing?
[18:03] <larjona> OTOH, the Puma devs came to the meeting today oleole!! Do they want to ask/add anything? seawolf macno
[18:03] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] I think strugee wanted to have tests passing before anything else
[18:04] -*- paroneayea preps the ascii art
[18:04] <larjona> wait a sec
[18:04] <paroneayea> yay seawolf / macno appearance :)
[18:04] <larjona> my fixed dancers
[18:04] <larjona>
[18:04] <larjona> \o7 \o/ o7 \o
[18:04] <larjona> | | /| |7
[18:04] <larjona> >\ / l )\ /(
[18:04] <larjona>
[18:04] <paroneayea> yay!
[18:04] <paroneayea> oooh very dynamic larjona
[18:05] <strugee> so hopefully I'll be able to fix the tests soonish
[18:05] <seawolf> hey :) i was really here for the other way round, if anyone had any q's about my published code features. i have to drop pump/puma from my side-rpojects unfortunately
[18:05] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] hey strugee o/
[18:05] <strugee> I started looking into it and it seems like some of them are somewhat non-deterministic which is a PITA
[18:06] <strugee> Jan: hey!
[18:06] <strugee> sorry I missed today
[18:06] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] I saw your reply to the mail, seawolf, very detailed
[18:06] <seawolf> :)
[18:06] <larjona> I can go on for 10 minutes but not much more, I have to prepare a minecraft/minetest zombie halloween costume
[18:06] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] hopefully macno can merge your stuff and do a release
[18:07] <strugee> oh yeah, Happy Halloween y'all!
[18:08] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] happy halloween :D
[18:08] <seawolf> maybe even just a alpha release to anyone who wants to run code without tests :)
[18:08] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] yep =)
[18:11] <larjona> ok, anything else? If anybody of the committer is stressed about the bugs queue growing and growing, just ping me and I'll give you a list of bugs you can close (duplicated, already answered,etc)
[18:11] <seawolf> if no-one has any q's then i'll let y'all carry on... happy if macno or anyone wants to e-mail me about it :)
[18:12] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] someone should give you permissions for that =)
[18:13] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] paroneayea?
[18:13] <larjona> I have no problems on not having permissions, just it's more work for the ones that have :)
[18:13] <paroneayea> hi
[18:13] <paroneayea> ah
[18:13] <paroneayea> yeah
[18:14] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] yes, but it makes sense, I think, that you have permissions for that
[18:14] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] since you're the one most active in that area ;)
[18:14] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] and, I think we all agree, trustworthy
[18:14] <larjona> OTOH, it can be "sad" for people that we just close bugs but don't merge anything :/
[18:15] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] well, if they're duplicates, they should be closed
[18:16] <paroneayea> yes, that's what happens in triaging
[18:16] <paroneayea> one good idea
[18:16] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] if some bugs are waiting for something, you can leave them open but add a label such as "ongoing" or something
[18:16] <paroneayea> is to say "I'm closing this because I believe this is a duplicate, let me know and feel free to reopen with more info if you believe this is not true!"
[18:17] <paroneayea> larjona: it's nice to have some canned but friendly response like that to put in ticket closings, to let people know you aren't closing it because you think they're wasting your time, and you appreciate them
[18:17] <larjona> yes, don't worry about that, I try to be elegant at any time :)
[18:17] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] she's a real diplomat :D
[18:18] <larjona> ok anything else?
[18:19] <larjona> paroneayea give us your art please :)
[18:19] <paroneayea> .--. ,-.
[18:19] <paroneayea> ( ;---. )
[18:19] <paroneayea> \ ,
[18:19] <paroneayea> .-----'.-' o o)
[18:19] <paroneayea> / , -
[18:19] <paroneayea> / ( .; ),",
[18:19] <paroneayea> * | )'-| , _/
[18:19] <paroneayea> ) | | | | |
[18:19] <paroneayea> 'nn nn 'nn'nn
[18:19] <paroneayea> elephant
[18:19] <paroneayea> hopefully moderately obvious :)
[18:19] <larjona> nice!!
[18:19] <paroneayea> and yay, meeting over, thanks for running larjona !
[18:20] <larjona> ok, thanks everybody!
[18:20] <larjona> #############################################################
[18:20] <larjona> END LOG
[18:20] <larjona> #############################################################