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The Awakening of Faith – Talk 29 |
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This transcript is in draft stage.
Katagiri Roshi: Page 48, last paragraph:
The triple world, therefore, is unreal and is of mind only. Apart from it there are no objects of the five senses and of the mind. What does this mean? Since all things are, without exception, developed from the mind and produced under the condition of deluded thoughts, all differentiations are no other than the differentiations of one's mind itself. Yet the mind cannot perceive the mind itself; the mind has no marks of its own that can be ascertained as a substantial entity as such. It should be understood that the conception of the entire world of objects can be held only on the basis of man's deluded mind of ignorance. All things, therefore, are just like the images in a mirror which are devoid of any objectivity that one can get hold of; they are of the mind only and are unreal. When the deluded mind comes into being, then various conceptions (dharma) come to be; and when the deluded mind ceases to be, then these various conceptions cease to be.
(From The Awakening of Faith, translated by Yoshito S. Hakeda, 1967.)
Okay, in this [paragraph], the first line is important: “The triple world, therefore, is unreal and is of mind only.”
This teaching, this is the point which Avatamsaka Sutra also mentions, and the [Shurangama?] Sutra mentions too. The triple world, therefore, is unreal and is of mind only. I think the last time we studied how the samsaric world goes, what structure of samsara is made. So I think we, do you remember, we have the five names of consciousness. Do you remember? Activating mind, and also the evolving mind. The activating mind is kind of karmic consciousness, karmic mind. “It breaks the equilibrium of mind by the force of ignorance.” So this karmic mind, activating mind, is the first stage of mind which starts to move. So that's why here it sats “by the force of ignorance.”
The second is evolving mind. Then when the mind starts to move, then it is the next subject comes up. That is evolving mind. So evolving mind, “for it emerges contingent upon the agitated mind as the subject that perceives incorrectly.” That is a subject.
Next, object comes up, that is reproducing mind. In this case, the object is not object materialistically you can see, but in this case it is called mind. Object is also called mind, that's why reproducing mind, “for it reproduces the entire world of objects as a bright mirror reproduces all material images. When confronted with the objects of the five senses, it reproduces them at once. It arises spontaneously at all times and exists forever reproducing the world of objects in front of the subject.” This is an object. So mind moves, and then next subject comes up, and then you can create object.
The next is analytic mind, that is accepting the subject and object, and think of them. That is analytic mind: “for it differentiates what is defiled and what is undefiled.”
Next, fifth, is continuing mind. The continuing mind, “it is united with deluded thoughts and continues uninterrupted. It retains the entire karma, good and bad, accumulated in the immeasurable lives of the past...” This continuing mind stores good or bad which you have accumulated in the past, constantly. Regardless of whether you like or dislike, anyway, good or bad, right or wrong are stored. It “does not permit any loss.” So whatever you do, all are, anyway, stored in your mind without any loss. “It is also capable of bringing the results of the pain [and] pleasure...” Very naturally, you can receive, you can experience pain, pleasant, unpleasant, et cetera. “... of the present and the future to maturity; in doing so, it makes no mistakes. It can cause one to recollect suddenly the things of the present and the past and to have sudden and unexpected fantasies of the things to come.” So memories go constantly, completely beyond control, without any loss. If you do something, memories are stored in the mind. And you can recollect suddenly something. This is also completely beyond your control. And also you can have “sudden and unexpected fantasies of the things to come”, for instance, the good ideas coming up, suddenly. This is not [under] your control, always, because whatever you do, all are stored in your consciousness. Memories and your accumulated thoughts and comments and doings, all are stored in your mind. So always it's coming up, constantly. It is completely not [under] your control.
So this is the five names of the mind.
And then, we can create the human world, which is unreal. So the world is not the world you can see actually, but the world is unreal, and also mind-only. World is of mind only.
Because, in this teaching, I think the world is nothing but the world reflected in your mirror, in your mind. And then next, we project that reflection externally. And then we believe that world is real. But it is not real, because you already have reflection in your mind, and then think of it, you judge it.
So what is the world? The world which you can see objectively cannot be known by you. This is this teaching. You never know. Because you already know your image, you already know the world reflected in your mind. That's it. So you never know the world objectively as they really are. No.
But usually human beings are very selfish, because we believe that we know the object completely. And we try to arrange, try to change, try to conquer anything by human. That is really arrogant, for human beings. But in this teaching, we don't have any chance to understand object at all.
So,
Apart from it there are no objects of the five senses and of the mind.
However, in our everyday life, we can see the object which seems to continue to exist, and also it is possible for us to think something, to distinguish, and to understand relationship between humans. And it seems to us that we can have a relation between the humans, between the people, good human relations seems to continue to exist. And also through the words, we can exchange our feelings, and be kind, compassionate, and we seem to carry good relationship between people.
But why is it? Why is it that this teaching says the world is nothing but the images, and mind is only, mind only? This is a big question for us. Because it is that teaching is not realistic. But this answer is, simply speaking, that this teaching doesn't deny or neglect the presence of object and subject, but the contents of our experience are no more than self-manifestation of mind. That's it. That is the point. Because your object, five sense objects, are reflected in your mirror, and then you look at the five sense objects reflected in your mirror. Okay? Not the five sense objects objectively as they are, no. Before you see this one, you already see your images.
So, the object reflected in your mind, projected to the external world. You project the object reflected in your mind to the external world, which [then] seems to be real. But that is a perverted already. So individually... that's why words can be understood by individual feeling, individual understanding, individual... education and thoughts. So very naturally, whatever you study... God, which must be one, creates many ideas of God. So finally we fight.
So if so, I think [...] object, which is called reproducing mind – if reproducing mind doesn't have its own capability to see, to reflect. For instance, [if] your eyes cannot have the capability to see a tape recorder, by injury. That time the object, reproducing mind, doesn't exist. Your eyes cannot see this. So you cannot see the object reflected in your sense organs, in the eyes' organs.
So that's why here it says, “apart from it there are no objects of five senses.” Okay? That's why if apart from it, apart from the reproducing mind, means object, object mind. Objective mind means your mind, okay? In this case, the object and subject are called mind. Not materialistically. They are called mind. That's why if your eye can sense organs doesn't work, there is no object.
So that's why here it says, “apart from it there are no objects of the five senses and of the mind.”
That's why, I think from this point, the objects as they are, exist completely beyond your mind. Beyond the mind. Tape recorder, trees, house, air... exist completely beyond the mind. In other words, tape recorder as it is, okay? Not tape recorder you can see, tape recorder as it is, air as it is, whole world as it is, exist beyond your mind.
And let's [look at] mind. Mind is also almost common, everyone has almost the same mind. If your mind sees this table, everyone can see the table almost in the same way. But strictly, it’s different. But anyway, the mind, everyone sees this table almost in the same way. So that's why everyone says, “This is a table.” But actually, strictly speaking, there is no way, no way to understand how do you feel, how you feel this table, when you see this table. No way for me to know what you are feeling, what you are understanding, how you understand this one. I don't know. So, individually, difference.
So your mind: I can see mind, I can see my mind, and I can see your mind, but your mind is still image of my mind. Your mind is my self-manifestation of my mind. That's it. So I don't know how your mind [is], I cannot know your mind. So in your everyday life, you try to explain your mind, how you feel, but always there is some gap between. It's pretty difficult to understand each other exactly.
Or, we believe the presence of mind, not only of the human beings, but also we believe that the trees, pebbles, rock, ground, rivers possess mind. And dog and cats – we can believe dog and cats possess mind. But actually, we don't know. We don't know what the mind is. But we don't know exactly what kind of mind the cat has, or dog has. But we can think, we can imagine the dog's mind, cat's mind, through our mind. In other words, we can reproduce their mind – reproduce the mind which seems to be their mind, but it is your mind. We can imagine. Do you understand?
So you never know dog's mind and cat's mind. You never know the tree's mind. But even the cats, even the dog, even the trees, even the human mind seems to be almost the same. Because cats and dogs face the object almost in the same way as we do. So if a dog sees the table, they can see the table. But we don't know how they feel themselves from the table. No. We don't know. But we can imagine through reproducing our mind.
Okay. That's why that sentence says, "Apart from it there are no objects of the five senses and of the mind.”
What does this mean? Since all things are, without exception, developed from the mind and produced under the condition of deluded thoughts, all differentiations are no other than the differentiations of one's mind itself.
So everything. You can see the world as nothing but as the self-manifestation of your mind. That's it. We believe that is real world, but it is not the real world, it is unreal, because it is your world.
So, the next sentence says,
Yet the mind cannot perceive the mind itself; the mind has no marks of its own that can be ascertained as a substantial entity as such.
How can I say [it]... the reproducing mind, how reproducing mind can be produced? That means, maybe I mentioned last time, first there is one mind, huge one mind, and that one mind starts to move, at that time that one mind is alayavijnana. But on the other hand, even though one-mind starts to move and call it alayavijnana, it doesn't mean that one-mind loses its own characteristic. So it constantly keeps its own nature. That is called tathagatagarbha. So one-mind is just like one piece of paper with two aspects.
So from this point, one-mind is a cause in order to establish reproducing mind. And then, the mind, one-mind starts to move... by what? By many conditions. That is ignorance, we say ignorance. Mind moves. We don't know why mind moves. So [we call that] ignorance. So ignorance is movement of mind.
So temporarily, intellectually, we can put the name on it. When the mind moves, it is called ignorance, because we don't know why. When the mind is put in certain circumstances, it moves beyond your control. For instance, if I put myself right in front of the table, my mind moves, beyond my control. That's why movement of conscious mind is called ignorance. It is not [seen].
So ignorance doesn't have its own root, no. We don't know from where it comes. So that's why mind, we don't know, in other words, we don't know why, how mind moves. But we can see mind moves because when your mind put in a certain situation, it moves beyond your control. That is called ignorance.
And then when the mind starts to move, completely that mind is getting away from tathagatagarbha. So it’s going far, far, far away, so going away constantly. That is called samsara, okay? Samsara world. That's why the cause, in order to establish the reproducing mind, there are cause, there are one-mind as a cause, and ignorance as a conditioned element, secondary cause. And then as a result, you can create samsara. That is samsaric world, human world. That is one systematical producing human mind.
On the other hand, in order to establish the analytic mind and also continuous mind, there are certain systems there. That system is ignorance which exists as cause. Because analytic consciousness and continuous consciousness are indication of movement of mind. So already there is an ignorance. So ignorance is cause.
And then you can create reproducing mind. That is secondary cause.
In other words, when I reflect this table in my mind, the moment when I see, this is automatically it goes. And then, my consciousness, my mind, joins this situation and analyze. So in other words, my analytic mind joins that certain situation, the situation which the object is reflected in my mind. Do you understand? Is that clear? So that's why ignorance is cause, and next, the object must join the functioning of analytic mind. So object must be secondary cause.
Person 1: You’re saying reproducing mind is the secondary cause?
Katagiri Roshi: Mm-hmm. Reproducing mind is secondary cause. And then you can experience suffering: pleasant feeling, unpleasant feeling, et cetera. This is human suffering.
This is a double system of how we create samsaric world, how we experience samsaric world. Double system there. Double system means, one system is one-mind is cause, and then one-mind starts to move, and then at that time that is called mumyo (ignorance), which is secondary cause, and then you can create samsara. That is called alayavijnana. And then the other system of producing the human mind is on the ground of the mumyo, ignorance, becomes cause. Ignorance is cause, because already you create, your mind moves.
Person 2: So the first cause is ignorance, and the second cause is reproducing mind? So the first cause is...
Katagiri Roshi: No, no. One double system of producing the samsara, and how we produce the samsara, how we experience samsara. That is a double. Very complicated situation. First you have to create the samsaric world, first. And then you can experience the samsara. Do you understand? If I explain; but simultaneously you do, very quickly you do. Do you understand? So that is a double system. So that's why I say, first how do you create samsara, this is on the ground of causation, teaching a system of causation. That is one-mind, universal mind. And then, that one mind starts to move, and this is called ignorance, as secondary cause. But we don't know how that one mind moves. Okay? It’s a little bit complicated: movement of the mind and also ignorance. We don't know. But that is the same situation is called in two ways. It’s called sometimes movement of the mind, and also ignorance. So both are same. Do you understand?
Person 2: Mm-hmm.
Katagiri Roshi: Practically speaking we can say mind moves. But intellectually, when you see the movement of your mind, it is called ignorance, in terms of its own characteristic. Because we don't know from where it comes.
And then we can create samsara. Next we can experience samsara, because we already... [there is] lots of emotional and intellectual feeling there. That's why that is called human experiences, from samsara, how we do it. So first ignorance becomes cause. And then object becomes secondary cause, so called producing mind. And then you can experience pleasant feeling, unpleasant feeling, neutral feeling, physically and mentally. And also suffering. Those [things]. That is double system of how we produce the samsara and also experience samsara.
So it’s very complicated. But whatever we do, means when we create samsara and experience samsara, always there is ignorance there.
So if this ignorance ceases, then we can see the object as they are. So that's why in Buddhist scriptures [it] always says, if you are free from ignorance, or, if you awaken ignorance from the bottom of your heart, by practice of meditation, et cetera, then you can be free from object and subject. In other words, you can see the object as they really are.
In other words... how can I say... That's why here it says, according to this sentence, “the mind cannot perceive the mind itself.” “Mind cannot perceive the mind” itself means... and also next sentence says, “the mind has no marks of its own.” So if you don't have ignorance, in other words, if you are free from ignorance, you can reflect your object as it is, without creating distortedness. So very smoothly, very simple way you can reflect your object.
So that's why you cannot see your mind, you cannot see your object. Do you understand? If you see your object reflected in the mirror, it's already perverted. Because if you see it, you already evaluate, judge, and next, creating affective preferences. So what we can do is to reflect, to see the object as simple as we can. That's why simplicity is important for us. As simple as we can.
But it's pretty hard. But anyway, we can do it! We can do it. That's why everyday we have to practice. Zazen is simple way. Anyway, zazen is very good for us, to see many things as simple as we can. But in zazen, if you always chase after thoughts and thinking and et cetera, you never know. You never know how you can be free from ignorance. No. How you can see the object as simple as we can. No. Because you are already in a simple situation, so-called sitting, but you don't, you don't live in a simple way.
[Tape change.]
... You have a good opportunity to make your life simple, reflecting objects and subject in a very simple way. But we don't do it. Why you don't do it? This is ignorance. [He chuckles.])
Do you understand? That is really ignorance, because your mind starts to move.
Person 3: Hojo-san? Isn’t even reflecting in a simple way, isn’t that still ignorance?
Katagiri Roshi: No. It's not ignorance.
Person 2: I thought any task of the reflecting mind is ignorance.
Katagiri Roshi: Well, that is the difference between the buddha or bodhisattva and, well... Next, I think page 49 and 50, it explains a little bit. I think there is a difference between the buddha and ordinary people. Quite different way. That’s why buddha receives the object just like reflecting the object in the bright mirror, exactly. That’s it. That’s why if you imagine the buddha’s life, buddha is just like walking hand in hand with all sentient beings in the six realms of existence. But he seems to suffer in the same way as we do. That's why we feel, "Oh, you walk with us, you are suffering, you look like a human being." That's why we feel intimate with him, that's why we can have the opportunity to access to him. If he doesn't walk hand in hand with us, we don't know how to access to him. Do you understand? That's why he walks in the samsaric world, in the six realms of existence. But, actually he doesn't suffer. He just walks. That’s it.
Person 1: So does a buddha have reproducing mind?
Katagiri Roshi: Yes, reproduce, but in a different way, a very simple way. Because it's reflected, it comes into very smoothly.
Person 1: It says on the reproducing mind that this mind exists forever.
Katagiri Roshi: Well, next, I think if you see the microphone... well, later that topic comes up. But anyway, simply speaking, if you see the microphone, and realize this is a microphone, that is, what would you say... in other words, this microphone reflects in my mind, and then I can see that reflection of the microphone in my mind, and think of it, and judge it. This is a very simple system. And then we project that reflection into the external world, and then says, “This is a microphone.” That system. [...] At that time, the problem is, for the ordinary people, create the microphone externally with attachment, very strong attachment.
But later that topic comes up. Under B. consciousness, that subject comes up.
But, Buddha doesn't have attachment so much. No. Simply accept. In other words, self-consciousness for Buddha works very simply. But, even the ordinary people have self-consciousness, but it exists with individual attachment, very strong attachment – to the self, to the object. So that is, and then you can create a completely different world.
Person 4: Hojo-san?
Katagiri Roshi: Hai.
Person 4: How is that different from the way that a young child would reflect objects that maybe that it wasn't familiar with? Wouldn't it just register that?
Katagiri Roshi: Well, they can learn. They can learn, still they reflect the object in their mind. But the express, express and project the reflection of the object into the external world in a different way. Very simply. When it's natural, number one, the babies always express, just first, I think what was said, the expression of natural number one by kind of movement of tapping, tapping, tapping. Always like this. And next, the babies express sort of movement of a circle. In the beginning, babies always move like this. But this is receiving a world, learning the natural number one. Very simple way. So that means, even the babies mind always contact with the object. Okay? But it's very simple, very simple.
So that's why this book says, "The mind cannot perceive the mind itself, the mind has no marks of its own."
So from this point, how can I say... when you are free from, in other words, when the mind cannot perceive the mind itself, in other words, if you receive the object as simple as you can, at that time, what would you say, it means no separation between subject and object. That means no separation between evolving mind and reproducing mind. So very naturally, reflect – that's it. If you reflect your object in your mind, it's simultaneous subject. So it becomes one. So no gap between.
Person: To reflect in that simple way, that's more of an active, more of a participation, than sort of a passive... ? Would you say it in that way?
Katagiri Roshi: ... It looks like a participation?
Person: That you say, when you reflect [...] in a simple way, when there's not ignorance, that reflection is?
Katagiri Roshi: Participation, whatever you say, participation or action, it's still our will is there. I want to try to see. Okay? But reflect your object as simple as you can doesn't mean try to reflect. So not try, just reflect.
So maybe participation. But still participation is, I want to participate.
That is, well, participation in movement still is involved in self-attachment, very strong attachment to the self and the object. That's why I want to participate. But real participation is very simple. Maybe.
So that's why I say, “free from ignorance” means, or “reflect your object as simply as you can” means, not try to see. But just reflect the microphone as it is, in your mirror. That is the Buddha Way.
That's why Buddha walking with us, but everything comes into his life always, but [...] Buddha does not try to see, not try to do something, but everything reflects, comes into his life. And then just handles.
Person 4: It seems like its very quiet and very active at the same time.
Katagiri Roshi: Yes, that's true. Very quiet.
Person 4: But also very active.
Katagiri Roshi: Very active. That's true. That's why Buddha is, if you see Buddha, he is very active, but in his heart, there is a very calm way of life. That's why you cannot say what it is. But as a whole personality, you can see.
Person: Could you say that it’s a matter of ... we put a lot of energy into believing what we see in the mirror as being the real thing, and that’s where the samsara comes in.
Katagiri Roshi: Mm-hmm.
Person: In like energy that we put into believing.
Katagiri Roshi: Mm-hmm.
Person: Other than just seeing it as a mirror.
Katagiri Roshi: Yeah, you cannot do it. Because already we have been educated, anyway. [He laughs.] So you cannot ignore, that's why we have to research how the mind is going, from the beginning. How mind works in a complicated way. We have to understand that mind. And then, we can go beyond this one. We can go beyond. If you understand how complicated human mind is, well it's not necessary to stay with it, so you can go beyond. So that is a simple way.
So that's why there are lots of teachings there: in order to realize how complicated we are.
[...] But still, in our life, we have to practice. Even though our mind is not simple, but we try to, we must be simple. This is the zazen we do. Regardless of whether you can handle your mind in a simple way or not, why don't you do this every day? Simple way. This is a practice of sitting.
Person 3: Hojo-san, just one more question. When the Buddha reflects in that way, are there any marks at all in the objects reflected in this manner?
Katagiri Roshi: No marks.
Person 3: Oh, okay. Is that the same as non-thinking?
Katagiri Roshi: Non-thinking. And non-self, no self.
So no self is not to deny subjectivity of cognition. Subjectivity of cognition exists constantly, even in the Buddha. Because Buddha said, if Buddha sees this person and that person, immediately, I am seeing you. Buddha says I. But, [in a] simple way, he deals with I, without involving in attachment so much.
So, no-self doesn't mean to deny subjectivity of cognition. Without subjectivity of cognition, we cannot exist. So the meaning of no-self is to deny the attachment. Attachment is very sticky, very sticky and strong.
That's why, next, the consciousness, page 49, I think we explain the consciousness, involved in the attachment. But, anyway, let's read the rest.
It should be understood that [the conception of] the entire world of objects can be held only on the basis of a person’s deluded mind of ignorance.
This is the world you can see, everyone see, ok? You cannot ignore this one.
All things, therefore, are just like the images in a mirror that are devoid of any objectivity that one can get hold of;
That's why, nothing, nothing to hold on, strictly speaking. That is called emptiness. Even the subject, even the object, all sentient beings, doesn't have their own root, from where they exist, from where they are ascertained by. We don't know.
they are of the mind only and are unreal.
And, they are unreal. It is very unreal.
When the [deluded] mind comes into being, then various conceptions (dharmas) come to be;
So, very naturally, when the deluded mind comes into being, then various conceptions, dharmas, come to be. When the mind moves, then you can see many dharmas. When your mind doesn't move, you cannot see any dharma. So, when your mind becomes calm, then no dharma. So, no marks.
Then,
and when the [deluded] mind ceases to be, then these various conceptions cease to be.
That is called “the triple world, therefore, is unreal and is of mind only.”
Next, “b. Consciousness”. Do you have a question so far?
Person: Hojo-san, when we say mind is the sixth sense, which mind? Do we mean all of these minds?
Katagiri Roshi: Yeah, mind means the previous paragraph, we can learn the five names of the mind? That mind is manas, in this case, which is different from the concept of consciousness here. This mind is, what would you say, very subtle functioning of consciousness. Very subtle. But the idea of consciousness in the next page explains, is rough, rough functioning of consciousness.
Person: I wonder, they said...
Katagiri Roshi: That’s what you mean?
Person: Yeah.
Katagiri Roshi: Yeah.
Person: And they say that, apart from it, there are no objects of the five senses of the mind.
Katagiri Roshi: Oh, that is the five senses. Yes, five senses means this one, you know, the activating mind. You mean the five senses? Where, where it says?
Person: It's the second sentence in that paragraph we just read.
Katagiri Roshi: Oh, yes, yes. Five senses, there are no objects of the five senses. Yes, five senses means this one, in the previous sentence.
Person: I thought it referred to hearing and seeing, smelling...?
Katagiri Roshi: Oh, I see, yes. You can think in that way, yes. Five senses. Fine.
Person: So I was wondering why they didn't say six senses. I was wondering that.
Katagiri Roshi: Well, in this case, in this book, I don't think, this book, this teaching always, they understand five senses and six senses as one. They don't analyze. So they don't care, anyway. So always dealing with it as one mind... not one mind, as six senses and eight senses, which the Yogachara mentions. It doesn't appear here. So they deal those minds as one. Is that alright?
Because if you start to analyze, you are confused, because this book doesn't analyze so much. Always dealing with mind as one. Okay?
Person: Well, that’s mostly what I was trying to lead up to you, but now I am confused. [He laughs.] Because where it says, “the mind cannot perceive the mind itself”...
Katagiri Roshi: Mm-hmm.
Person: But if mind is a sense... well it seems that mind can perceive the mind itself, because the mind perceives thinking. It seems to be apart from the five senses. If you took away all the five senses, wouldn't there be something left? Or does our whole thought process depend on five senses?
Katagiri Roshi: Well, I think in this case, we see subject and object, all things, in terms of psychological point of view. Okay? Mind. So that's why object is not materialistic object. Even the object we say, you know, reproducing mind, anyway. So object is mind means already the object exists in our mind. So this is the mind. So that means subjective mind sees the objective mind, in other words. So that's why we can, our subjective mind can see objective mind, in our mind. Do you understand?
That's why [...] subjective mind cannot perceive objective mind. At that time, simple. Just reflections, that's it. At that time, no marks of object, because just reflect.
At that time, subjective mind cannot see, cannot perceive objective mind. If subjective mind perceives the object immediately, it works. Okay? And then next, it works with attachment, so-called consciousness.
But Buddha is dealing with this process in a different way, because just reflect, constantly just reflect. That's why mind cannot perceive the mind. And then no marks, [et cetera]. Is that okay?
Person: I think so. So you're saying that if the mind perceives, the mind perceives from the point of view of one mind, then there isn't subject and object to discriminate? Is that what you’re saying?
Katagiri Roshi: No, no. One mind doesn't mean... I use one mind as big mind, okay?
Person: Got it.
Katagiri Roshi: On the other hand, I said the one mind means, you know, this Awakening of Faith doesn't analyze in detail the human consciousness so much, just like Yogachara Buddhism. In the Yogachara, the human consciousness is analyzed in detail. Eight consciousnesses. But here, it doesn't. So that is, I say, they deal with mind as one, okay? But that one, the concept of one mind, is different from the concept of one mind as a big mind. I mentioned before. Alright?
Because if you analyze the consciousness in several ways, I think each consciousness possesses its own substantiality. In other words, its own characteristic. Otherwise, you cannot explain. But here, whatever kind of mind you can see, all are one substantiality. That's what I mean.
Any other questions?
Question: In the triple word... does that mean past, present, future?
Katagiri Roshi: Triple world has two meanings. One is past, present, future. The other meaning is, in Sanskrit, how can I say... the world of desire, world of form, the formless world.
That is, the world of desire is... that which is occupied by two kinds of desires: uptight and sexual desires. This is the world. The world of form is bodily existence. Okay? Bodily existence. But in this case, in this word, I think you can enjoy bodily existence by entering into samadhi. This is the world of form.
And then, the formless world is your enjoyment, the bodily existence, pretty deep, by entering samadhi. And then the form of bodily existence is dissolved in the realm of samadhi. That is the formless world.
Question: So that would be like the third realm?
Katagiri Roshi: Third realm, yes. So, in other words, third realm is just the spiritual world. Even though you have a body, the form of body is dissolved in the spiritual world.
And also, temporarily, we believe that such a world exists externally. We set up this idea. But actually it’s not external world, but... well, internal world, but simultaneously you can project this internal world into external world. That’s why temporarily we set up this idea of the world, which seems to exist externally. Alright? That is the idea of triple world. In order to explain the human world. So we say triple world.
Next time, we will study “Consciousness”, okay?