Support Leading Edge Model D

[evan]

The Leading Edge Model D has a MM58167 RTC on port 300h. Is it possible to support this in GLaTICK?

[640-KB]

Yep, if you wanted to build it yourself you can change it to any port (or ports) you like in the code here. I just don't include 300H by default to avoid possible conflicts or misdetection, since it can be used by a lot of other stuff (MIDI cards, XT-IDE, etc).

Anyway, here's a build of the MM58167 that includes port 300H:
https://github.com/640-KB/GLaTICK/releases/download/v0.8.6/GLaTICK_0.8.6_NS_RP_300H.ROM

Let me know how that works!

640KB

[evan]

Thanks, I will. I am new at this, if you have any tips on how to use an XT-IDE to program an option rom chip (I think I need an AT28C64B?) to go in an Intel 8/16 NIC, I would appreciate it.

The CLKDVR.SYS driver for the Leading Edge RTC has bugs with DOS > 3.1 so I am hoping this might be a solution.

[640-KB]

Yeah, you'll just want to get some 8K 28C64 EEPROMs (Atmel, etc) -- if you are lucky, you might be able to find them on Mouser or Digikey (though they are usually out of stock), and I've just bought most of the ones I have on eBay. I've never personally used the XT-IDE card to write them, but on the XUB site under "Using XTIDECFG.COM (XTIDE Universal BIOS configuration and flashing program)" it says you can with the XTIDECFG.COM program by using the "Load BIOS from file" option, so it should absolutely work.

Which version of DOS are you planning to use? Complete BIOS real-time clock support wasn't fully added to DOS until version 3.3, so as long as you are that or higher you should be good. Have you tried any other clock software that's worked with the clock? The MM58167 interface is pretty standardized (but I'm always finding new surprises!).

Keep me posted - haven't tested before on a Leading Edge, so should be interesting to hear how it goes.

[640-KB]

I think I need an AT28C64B?

Yep. I believe the AT28C64 (no letters) should work as well if you find them easier too.

[evan]

I am using MS-DOS 6.22. The clock works fine, but in DOS 6 when the driver updates the DOS time, the year is not properly set, so it's always 1980.

There is no other MM58167 driver that expects port 300h, so my other option was to try disassembling something and changing it.

[640-KB]

In the meantime, you can also try the "David_M's clock reader" (use CLOCK D F5) to see if the clock is more or less standard. It's not a clock driver, but it's a great little "swiss army knife" of clock tools that make it easy to verify if the clock chip is working right. If it shows the right time (the year could be off by 20 years, but that's okay) then you'll know GLaTICK will definitely work with it. If it doesn't work, GLaTICK may still work though. Just something to try if you don't have any AT28C64, while you're waiting for them to arrive. :)

[evan]

I have ordered two EEPROMs.

Leading Edge DOS 3.1 sees the correct year. CLOCK.COM sees the clock, but thinks it's 1980, just like DOS 6.22. The Leading Edge has Phoenix BIOS 3.0. Maybe there's some kind of offset or epoch that needs to be adjusted in DOS/CLOCK.COM?

[640-KB]

Leading Edge DOS 3.1 sees the correct year. CLOCK.COM sees the clock, but thinks it's 1980, just like DOS 6.22. The Leading Edge has Phoenix BIOS 3.0. Maybe there's some kind of offset or epoch that needs to be adjusted in DOS/CLOCK.COM?

That's actually fine - in fact what you are seeing is good, because it confirms that the Leading Edge has a totally standard 58167 hardware implementation.

There's actually no standard for how the 58167 stores the year in its registers (in fact it doesn't even have a year register), so it's up to the clock software for how it wants to handle it. It's no big deal -- just means usually if you change clock software you'll have to reset the time once. The first time you run GLaTICK, most likely it will say "ERROR" and reset the time back to 01-01-1980, and then you can set it in DOS once and you'll be good to go!

[640-KB]

Hi Evan, moving this to the Discussions section. Keep us posted how it's going!

640KB

[evan]

I got my EEPROM and flashed it OK. If I leave it in the XT-IDE I see the GLaTICK boot message and it detects my RTC. However, if I move it to the Intel 8/16 NIC, it is not loaded.

I tried setting the boot ROM address on the NIC to some other addresses, but none of them seem to work at boot, or pass the diagnostics in the NIC utility. Any ideas? I can't really rule out a damaged chip or NIC I guess but otherwise they seem to work.

[640-KB]

Funny thing about that... I was just talking with someone the other day who was having trouble getting the XT-IDE ROM working on their Intel 8/16 on a 286. I don't believe he got it solved though.

However, I dug around and found I did have one of those 8/16 cards too and tried a few ROMs in it and no luck either. If it read the ROM it was just garbage. That is until I found this picture realized I was putting the ROM in the socket incorrectly... and that made all the difference!

Do you have yours oriented like this - with the pin 1 of the EEPROM actually in pin 3 of the DIP32 socket?

https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/intel-8-16-isa-lan-adapter-drivers.56385/post-772210

[640-KB]

In fact, I inadvertently discovered that GLaTICK works on a 386 too! :)

[evan]

Initially I had it wrong and got a RAM error on boot; then I found a similar picture and corrected it. Now I get nothing with either the GlaTICK chip or the XTIDE chip in the NIC. Both boot fine in the XTIDE board.

I set the 8/16 boot rom address to D200; still nothing. It seems like the PC doesn't see the ROM slot on the NIC at all.

[640-KB]

Darn. Well, my test was on a 386 so not a good comparison. I'll try it on my XT later to see if it works there or not.

If you go into DOS DEBUG, try typing d d200:0and see if it sees the rom contents at all.

You tried all possible addresses right? Even the C ones?

[evan]

DEBUG doesn't see it; neither does Checkit Pro. I can see the XTIDE ROM in both. I did try some C addresses; I didn't try every possible address. I guess the NIC doesn't like the chip or its contents? Maybe I broke it by initially having the chip in pin 1 instead of 3?

I have the version of the card with the built-in RJ45 connector.

[640-KB]

Well, the identically configured, previously working card in my 386 does not work on my XT either! Doing the dump from DEBUG on the configured ROM address I just get all FF's, so there is definitely something else to getting the ROM socket on this board working on an XT!

I guess I'll ask around and see if anyone else has any experience with this one!

[evan]

Strange, ok. I tried flashing with no checksum recalculation and that didn't fix it. Maybe the boot rom isn't supported in 8 bit mode? If you force 8 bit mode on the card with SOFTSET.EXE on your 386 does it still work?

I also saw a reference somewhere to configuring the boot rom size; I do not have that option in SOFTSET.EXE. Maybe SOFTSET2.EXE can do it but I think that requires a 286 or 386.

[640-KB]

Strange, ok. I tried flashing with no checksum recalculation and that didn't fix it. Maybe the boot rom isn't supported in 8 bit mode? If you force 8 bit mode on the card with SOFTSET.EXE on your 386 does it still work?

That's what I'm wondering too... if the boot ROM was only intended for 286+ PCs and just never worked properly in 8 bit mode.

I also saw a reference somewhere to configuring the boot rom size; I do not have that option in SOFTSET.EXE. Maybe SOFTSET2.EXE can do it but I think that requires a 286 or 386.

I ran SOFTSET2 on my XT and it seemed to work fine. I didn't see an option to configure the size though... it was just showing 8K address spaces.

More research needed... let me know if you learn anything, and I will do the same!

[evan]

I got a half-dead 386 out of the closet and it detects fine in there for me too, even when the card is forced to 8-bit mode.

I think I will try to get a larger XTIDE EEPROM which I think will have room to also add the GLaTICK ROM as well; does that seem reasonable? Then I won't need the socket on the NIC although I'm disappointed it doesn't work.

[640-KB]

I got a half-dead 386 out of the closet and it detects fine in there for me too, even when the card is forced to 8-bit mode.

Interesting! So I put the card back into my 386 into a normal 16 bit slot and everything again worked fine. I then moved it one slot over into the 8 bit slot next to it and it stopped working, so there's definitely something about that card using an 8 bit slot with a ROM that is an issue. I did have it set to forced 8 bit mode, though I suspect that has more to do with the NIC, not the ROM socket. I suppose it's possible that the network boot ROM originally required a 286+ so the slot was never intended for use in an 8 bit slot and inaccessible that way (this is only a guess). Haven't been able to find a manual for the 8/16 card yet, so can't confirm if it was known from Intel.

I think I will try to get a larger XTIDE EEPROM which I think will have room to also add the GLaTICK ROM as well; does that seem reasonable? Then I won't need the socket on the NIC although I'm disappointed it doesn't work.

Should work great, so long as your card supports a larger 32K EEPROM. None of mine do, but I do believe some of the more advanced ones can.

I'll keep asking around and see what we can learn.

640KB

[evan]

I don't think I have a 32 pin EEPROM/FLASH, but I'm wondering if that would work. I'm also wondering if the 28 pin EEPROM is powered from the 16bit slot 5V line and just isn't getting power. (Update: seems like the chip is correctly powered.)

Somebody online claims to be using the Realtek RTL8019AS NIC in an 8 bit machine with an XTIDE BIOS in it, so that might be an alternative.

There is a HELP.EXE (or similar) program that comes with the Intel NIC but I didn't see anything related to our issue.

[640-KB]

Calling in help from the experts! :)

https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/intel-8-16-network-adapter-rom-socket-in-8-bit-isa-slot.1244561/

[evan]

Hopefully somebody knows something.

One thing I noticed, if you try to enable the RAM mapping on an 8 bit machine, it tells you it's not supported. It doesn't say this for the ROM mapping.

[640-KB]

Hopefully somebody knows something.

One thing I noticed, if you try to enable the RAM mapping on an 8 bit machine, it tells you it's not supported. It doesn't say this for the ROM mapping.

Wish I could find a manual or more technical documentation on that card to know more about what exactly 8-bit mode and memory do for the software and why/how/if they work on an 8-bit vs 16-bit bus. Interestingly that help file says that I/O address space access is better performance than memory space access, which makes you wonder why have it at all?

[evan]

Yeah, must be for compatibility with something obscure.

[evan]

I got this working with a different NIC (Networth UTP16B). I have to configure that card on a 386 but it does work with an 8 bit packet driver and expose the boot rom correctly. Your 300h build of GLaTICK seems to work fine.

[640-KB]

Excellent! Glad to hear. Unfortunately, no new insights on the Intel card... I'm in the same boat as you on that one. Will update if we discover anything new.

Anything else w/GLaTICK or otherwise, let me know!